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Post by Merry927 on Dec 4, 2015 15:27:36 GMT -5
Are others similarly thinking about just not playing the Sims anymore like me?
I really resent that not only am I forced into having an on-going relationship with Origin, I have now had to agree to sign away rights to Microsoft just to use something I've already paid for. I totally reserve the right to ignore the terms due to the fact that they were presented without an option to disagree unless foregoing use of something I already paid for.
Now I have to wait for modders to check and update things before I can use my game again.
I only stopped playing my Medieval TS2 game, because another household member purchased TS4 and I really wanted to start creating and I felt like there was no room for a learning curve with TS2, given what others had already done.
I am attached to my TS4 Sims and I have lots of ideas for creations, but I'm going to have to seriously think about quitting and going back to TS2. I'm just not sure it's worth it.
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Post by Finn Quill on Dec 4, 2015 16:04:20 GMT -5
This whole 'signing away your rights to a product you own' thing is really a pretty moot argument nowadays. Either you only play what sites like GOG offer, or you accept that PC gaming (at least) has moved into the 'cloud storage, 3rd-party client' direction. Steam and Origin aren't that different, except that EA is more of a duck. Still, there's not really any good reason to expect either to make a drastic move in the direction of violating your consumer rights. Not to mention, since both have an offline mode, clearly you only need to pay lipservice to their program to play what you own. It's still all there, and playable.
You didn't need to install today's patch, I haven't yet, I don't plan to until I know most (if not all) of my mods are compatible again. This is not a problem with Sims 4, this is just the nature of modding. I've never seen a single game suggest that mods are completely stable and compatible, because they never are and never will be. If you were playing the game yesterday, and everything was mostly fine, then you could still play today without patching. If you didn't know patching would potentially break your mods, I don't know what to tell you, every mod site has those warnings up.
If you don't like how this is, go back to TS2 then. However, the issues you're presenting are really just the nature of the beast when it comes to modern gaming, especially PC gaming. It isn't exclusive to TS4.
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Post by Merry927 on Dec 5, 2015 12:53:48 GMT -5
"This whole 'signing away your rights to a product you own' thing is really a pretty moot argument nowadays." Ah. It's just the way it is. I see now... "Not to mention, since both have an offline mode, clearly you only need to pay lipservice to their program to play what you own. It's still all there, and playable." That isn't an accurate statement. I was unable to launch my Sims 4 game without agreeing to update and unable to update without entering into an agreement about the license with Microsoft. And Carl's Guide posted this from SimGuru: •*Requires internet connection, The Sims 4 (sold separately) and all game updates to play. •The Sims 4 - sold separately at participating sellers of things and stuffs. •Sellers and cellars – homonyms •Homonyms, hymns, and yeoman… not the same. •Yeoman reminds me of yeti… •We had a yeti in MySims™ Agents… •Sold separately. Apparently, you need to follow info like that up with 6 full lines of BS to make it palatable??
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Post by Merry927 on Dec 5, 2015 13:03:20 GMT -5
Anyway, luckily my family holiday shops late, so EA gets none of the money that they would have otherwise.
I'm still reading and considering, but I don't really see that there is anything I can do that isn't just punishing myself and helping them do their shitty thing. I guess I just have trouble being as resigned as most people seem to be to losing consumer rights.
I mean, when the greatest part of society doesn't seem to be able to even consider their own self-interest as legitimate in an economy that is supposed to be about competition based on self-interest, yeah, this is what we get.
It's sad because this is the part of technology that is good, the part where people freely share information and support each other.
But people seem to buy into the idea that corporate interests are also our (personified/citizenified) buddies.
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Post by Finn Quill on Dec 5, 2015 13:13:03 GMT -5
I'm not a supporter of capitalism or the current way things are going, but I also hate just about everything about society. It's a waste of my life, time, and effort to fight the way things are, because it's all I'd do and most people are just too complacent with it to fight. Mostly, I'm saying, that if you point fingers at EA, they're just going to go: 'Everyone else is doing it?' You gotta hit the industry as a whole.
Also, as for the patch notes, I like it. It's one of my favourite things about Maxis/The Sims games is that they don't take themselves so seriously. Everyone I see complaining about how their patch notes are meandering and playful just strikes me as humourless.
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Post by orangemittens on Dec 7, 2015 20:51:35 GMT -5
I completely understand the whole feeling that patches are very disruptive to a game set up. In Sims 3 I was a tool tester rather than on the team making the tool for content creation and I never patched until the tool was up and running for that patch. That's one of the big reasons we try to update as soon as is humanly possible after a patch. That way creators can get on with patching and all the other fixing they'll need to do to get up and running again. I have major issues with how corporations are handled here in the US. I definitely don't care for how multinational corporate interests are conflated with our national interests or the interests of individual American citizens. I think their privileged position has insidiously grown over the years and is heavily bolstered by the fact that we have no real major media outlet anymore that isn't owned by some large corporate interest or another. It's tough to get people engaged and involved in changing a system that they don't realize needs changing because they don't get any real information/news/education about that system. I think it's equally problematic that under the law corporations are treated as an individual that all the real individuals making decisions for them can hide behind. All of that said I, like Ryu, cannot waste my life being the lone voice crying in the wilderness. I spent a couple of years being very concerned with all of it and it got me absolutely nowhere, changed nothing, and lead to a lot of heated, pointless conversations that alienated people I really cared about for no good reason at all. My personal feeling is that just like an alcoholic this country is going to have to hit rock bottom before it wakes up and understands that things are going to have to change and amends are going to have to be made. I don't see that happening any time soon. I do what I can to not be part of the problem but I've grown very weary of trying to be part of a solution no one believes (or knows) is necessary yet. I believe it will happen in time because our system as it currently is and is trending is not sustainable. As far as self interest goes, again, I think a lot of people aren't displaying more self interest in consumer rights because they are unaware of what the concept even is let alone that theirs are being ever more quickly eroded. FFS you have people in this country more concerned that a gay couple living across the country is now able to get married than they are about their own state's flat tax code that makes it difficult to feed their kids...go figure. I have no plan to stop modding Sims 4. It gives me a great amount of fun at a pretty cheap price. For less than the cost of a single meal at a nice restaurant I can buy a game that is easily manipulated to have features I choose and content I add. I can share this fun with other people who enjoy modding the game and with other people who just plain like playing it or designing things in it. I hope you don't get too fed up with it because I enjoy your company here at Studio forums and I like the content you create as well
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Post by Merry927 on Dec 9, 2015 14:39:34 GMT -5
OM, my esteem for you just keeps growing. Excellent comments, although we are very lucky for those folks who have not given up the fight.
Anyway, my son, who looks out for his mum and has his heart in the right place, but could work on his listening comprehension, tells me the morning after posting this that he has fixed the problem and all it required was agreeing to the update! *face palm*
Anyway, I've already paid for what I have and I don't want to give up creating either, so I'm resigned at this point to feeling that not spending holiday money will "punish" them a little and leaving it at that.
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Post by freeasabird on Dec 12, 2015 17:57:06 GMT -5
I agree with a lot that’s been said here. However, I have a lot of reservations too concerning this game. I can create for it and love doing so. I also miss my Sims 2 game very much. I tried to re-install but am missing 3 discs. The fact that I was willing to go back to Sims 2 speaks volumes about the new games. OM the USA seems to think that it can invade privacy at will, there are laws here that I'm pretty sure have been violated by the 'terms and conditions' of EA's policies. But as you point out, who really cares? My main concerns are lack of privacy. I don’t play while on line and have belatedly learnt not to update until I know what I will loose by doing so. No company can assure its users that its employees are 100% trustworthy. The conditions that EA/Origin insist on open a lot of doors and risks for its customers. This is a game not a political threat or a cure for cancer. No one person makes it work, in fact it has always been the players and creators that ensure its success and continuation. I would very much like the new expansion but for the first time in 15 years I really don't know if I want to go there. Oh yes, I too like the Maxis humour, I can tell the difference between the original people/fans/creators and EA dipsticks.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2015 15:35:27 GMT -5
I give up complaining, Frontal Lobotomy - self inflicted. I Love everything. Ha!
Free PC's and Sims4 to all Refugees! Why Not?
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Post by orangemittens on Dec 27, 2015 18:49:27 GMT -5
freeasabird, I am definitely not advocating that the always being eroded US laws governing privacy be eroded further. I apologize if anything I said suggested that.
stevenssimsstuff, I'm not suggesting a frontal lobotomy. I definitely don't agree with that. My feeling is that the time will come but the time has not yet come. Not enough people care, not enough people are being impacted, and, most importantly, not enough people even know what's going on. I don't know much about the political situation where you live but I can tell you that, here in the US, not many people know about the political situation. If they did there would be a lot more people complaining. Our communication system has been completely undermined by corporations taking over all the media. There is no information and, I suspect, even if there were, people would rather tune in to sports or fashion stuff because it's just more fun. Who wants to see people in some other country suffering to make the plastic poo you use in your home every day when they can watch some model posing in beautiful clothes? The lack of any meaningful communication about what's going on makes it very easy to ignore that one small number of people is using all the rest of us. I'm sure they're terrified that we might find out...we outnumber them.
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Post by believe&become on Dec 28, 2015 8:54:00 GMT -5
Thank you orangemittens for that meaningful post. Whilst it's true that changes have to be made to the political handling of economic markets on a global scale, it's not always productive to mount a one-man stand against society (although I'd welcome another Ghandiji any day now). As far as I have researched how to implement change there are always certain steps that have to be followed when change is required, regardless of whether it's something personal and "trivial" like giving up smoking or has a global impact like climate change: Stage I: Being incapable of change and unconscious of the fact that things can or should change (also includes people who choose to ignore complications that will arise if things don't change) Stage II: Being incapable of change but conscious - realizing a change has to be made, working on raising awareness both within and around, searching for useful methods Stage III: Being capable of implementing desired behaviour but only with great effort and attention, with relapses into the old mindset - like when you are learning to drive but have to pay attention to every single thing and you can't have a conversation while driving as it distracts you Stage IV: Being capable of implementing the desired behaviour even unconsciously and expecting and implementing it as the norm (like having totally quit smoking, or how people don't litter streets in certain countries, or you can just expect full healthcare for life, for free or only paying for it if you can afford to pay for it - all this "should" be normal) A lot of humanity is stuck on Stage I (people who just don't know or don't want to know how bad things are, or think change is impossible). A few are in Stage II but don't know where to start as there is not a lot of "guaranteed" or painfree solutions. Of course the ideal situation to have pretty soon is for leaders to be at least in Stage III - actively trying to change, even if mistakes are made, it's important to make some kind of progress albeit slow in the right direction. But for those of us here, let's at least try to keep the awareness alive and growing. It is crucial for survival. It may sound ridiculous for gamers to be talking about this in a cc forum, but in my opinion any place is good to cultivate common sense, alertness and moral responsibility. In short, I will continue playing, but I am interested in knowing what the situation is with the workers that provide their services. A little similar to this, I believe wholeheartedly in the concept of Fairtrade (that make sure the workers get a decent living especially in 3rd world countries, that slave labour is not used, that the environment is protected), but where I live right now, although I have access to some Fairtrade products (which I do consume), it's entirely impossible to get ALL the things my family needs via Fairtrade, not to mention the costs implied. Parallel to this, how many of you would give up chocolate entirely if you knew that almost certainly most chocolate comes from child slave labour in 3rd world countries? I didn't know that until relatively recently - here's an article. I try to buy only Fairtrade our UTZ certified chocolate which can be double or triple the price at times (it's not guaranteed either, but it's the closest I can get), I don't buy Hershey, Mars, Nestlé chocolate for example as I believe they have no measures against the use of child slavery, but if someone gives it to me as a present, I won't throw it away. I do, however, try to spread consciousness and allow people to make an informed choice. That's what I believe in - freedom - to make informed choices. End of rant! Have a lovely day!
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Post by believe&become on Dec 28, 2015 10:16:50 GMT -5
Steven I know you said it in jest, but actually the idea is gold - I love using games to educate people or address important issues. For refugees to play simulated characters in a new virtual world in order to learn about other cultures, wow! To have such a game would have helped me when I moved to Europe from West Africa and didn't know how to react to people or what certain social cues meant. It's like when I was little and learnt so much about Romans, Gauls, Vikings, etc just from reading and re-reading every single Asterix and Obelix comic, it may not seem like much, but it was more educational than, say, Read your own Adventures, even though I also learnt from them too (e.g. I didn't know what Mardi Gras was before reading a read your own adventure book about that). How many people are learning snippets of history from doing history challenges in The Sims?
That's just it, it's perfect - and that's totally the mentality of S4S - the fact that learning CAN be simultaneous with fun. I'm non ashamedly using my Sim characters, gameplay and simblr to spread awareness about issues I care about and think are important, to break stereotypes and cultivate the love - although sure, I use it as well to explore my own creativity and "just for fun". Why not use playing The Sims to educate? Who says educating isn't fun? Most of us are here in this forum because we do find a sense of purpose and fun in learning and teaching within a gaming environment. :D
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Post by Merry927 on Dec 28, 2015 11:39:03 GMT -5
What I appreciate are those who can speak about their responses without dismissing or diminishing the problem.
I don't really believe in ignorance/Stage I any more. What I see most often as a response to information is a concerted effort to suppress it through dismissal and diminishment, not to mention much more extreme and antagonistic reactions designed to silence the messenger through bullying.
And what you and orangemittens demonstrate by modeling it, believe&become, is that one does not have to engage in the low-level active denial strategies that are so common in my experience and, instead, "own" one's choices. There is no shame in that; everyone has to make choices. Why contribute to stagnation by taking actions that hold us back in Stage I? At that stage, doing or saying nothing, the most apathetic response, is still an improvement, creating more space for others who aren't stuck there to keep moving things forward.
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Post by Merry927 on Dec 28, 2015 11:43:44 GMT -5
Anyway, my family did get me Get Together and Outdoor Retreat for Christmas. (My rants were completely tuned out here.)
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Post by believe&become on Dec 28, 2015 19:34:11 GMT -5
I think I understand what you mean, but I'd have my doubts about whether being apathetic or silent is better than denying or dismissing the problem, at least on a person-to-person level. In a way, if someone tells me they know about a certain injustice and they don't care, or it doesn't affect them so it's not their problem, or nothing can be done anyway, thus dismissing the issue as unimportant or not in their area of concern that I see that IS a choice they are owning, whether I like that choice or not, and whether it's ethical or even common sense or not. I do appreciate their honesty in that even if I do not share their view, because I at least know where they "stand" and can decide myself whether to continue discussing the issue or not. However the no-answer majority could swing the whole thing either way and I'm confused as to whether I should further attempt to do what I consider my "moral duty" of sharing what information I have (and I always try to indicate where my sources are from), or whether I'm just throwing words at a wall. This reminds me of a BBC documentary I watched some time ago called Blurred Lines:The New Battle of the Sexes. Although I would say most men are not chauvinistic per se (at least in an obvious, de-humanizing manner), there are of course a few men who do have that problem, and the documentary suggested that when for example they were surrounded by male friends and sharing rape jokes, if the non-chauvinistic ones, although not encouraging, just kept silent so as not to offend or ruin the atmosphere of camaraderie, their silence was interpreted as support and at the very least, non-opposition to those views, and kept chauvinism alive and burning in those isolated individuals (like they understood that their behaviour was acceptable in the right circles). I used to argue, what's better, to have a misguided understanding, or not have any understanding at all? One could say that it's better to start off blank minded, as it takes longer to unprogram something that's wrong from the start. But I say, even if what someone thinks is "wrong", I am grateful they can think "at all" - I believe that people CAN change their mindsets and reason why a new way of thinking and acting could be beneficial for all sides, but if one does not have the habit of thinking AT ALL (what a friend of mine calls the " sheeple") then woe is me, I'm not sure anything can be done. When older generations complain about young generations setting up protests and strikes about "petty stuff", I always say, well, at least they care about SOMETHING, there is hope, there is life, even if some think it is misguided, in those individuals. What really scares me is the people who don't think/don't care, much more than those who think about it, and decide against it. I'll end with a quote by Edmund Burke : "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." though I would change it situationally to "say nothing". Sometimes nothing can be done in the immediate future, but acknowledging the parts that are not working is quintessential, and I agree with OM - our strength will not come from money, but from numbers. Oh and likewise Merry927 I was seriously considering boycotting Get Together, but my husband found it on offer (about 40% off) and got it for me without me knowing. So yippee, I get to play it and my moral integrity is still intact :rolleyes:. Might as well enjoy it, eh?
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